Except treating this as essentially a cultural issue is profoundly dishonest.
Pregnancy is an arduous physical condition regardless of all other considerations. A woman's body is permanently altered.
The opinions, the moral arguments of others should have zero credence before the point of viability. I think abortion is a hideous reality but an absolutely necessary evil, yet whatever I think about it should be irrelevant. Until the point of viability, no moral weight whatsoever should be attached to it under color of law or otherwise.
Abortion changes a woman forever. Worse, these abortion pills the left is so cavalier about sending through the mail without doctor eval or follow-up is deadly shit. Pregnancy is not a surprise unless a woman is raped which is illegal and accounted for in abortion laws. Women hold responsibility to stay un-pregnant if they don't want to have this problem, and being pregnant and unmarried now is nothing like it was 50 years ago, nobody is making women keep and raise babies they don't want. The landscape that made abortion make a little more sense long ago hans completely changed, while abortion ghouls have been making big business of ruining young women's lives through the abortion, transition and now covid vax clinic (without parental consent, naturally).
i am a woman and i would agree with you except- the State seems to have two compelling interests here 1) encouraging the next generation of workers, tax payers, voters and cannon fodder and 2) the general prohibition against murder is harder to make if you have carve outs.
politicians and lawyers can argue about when life becomes life- is it the heart beat? the viability (which changes as medical intervention gets better at spending vast sums keeping super premies alive)?
there are those who would argue that children aren't really viable until they are in their 30s! i heard a rabid woman in an interview insisting that it was a woman's choice and ALWAYS a woman's choice even when it came to murdering her 3 year old. i think reasonable people would agree that she had gone too far. but when does "nobody's business" become too much to bear?
which is why abortion is such a complex issue- it is the extinguishing of a life and yet if the developing fetus were, let's say, a rapidly growing cancerous tumor taking over, no one would argue against cutting it out. and because it's growing in someone else's body, there are two sets of rights which may sometimes compete.
from what i see posted on line, i think many women are angry about the unfairness of childbirth but that's just how it is. wishing it to be a more shared burden is like saying trans "women" are women- it ignores reality at it's peril.
you yourself say "Pregnancy is an arduous physical condition regardless of all other considerations. A woman's body is permanently altered." but i know women who LOVED being pregnant and everyone's body is permanently altered just with the passage of time. are you the same physical person you were at 20?
from the point of view of the species, a woman's only function might be simply to make more and contrary to what you said about the arduousness of it all, women evolved to endure it. all those organs and hormones exist for a reason.
there was a time in my life when i swore i would leave the country if roe vs wade was ever overturned even if i was post menopausal and no longer directly affected by it because it would indicate that the country had swung too far to the right. but watching the "my body, my choice" crowd disavow that sentiment when it came to covid vaccines has caused me to rethink my position. these days i think that getting back to the Constitution is more important than whether or not some woman is inconvenienced when trying to off her child. honestly these women seem so angry- at men, at their own physicality, at everything, like they're in some kind of death cult where everything is miserable.
and to be perfectly candid, i had an abortion in the early 80s so i'm not just blowing smoke. i remember getting the connection through a friend and having to travel to an out of town doctor. i have no regrets; i simply didn't want children. i certainly didn't throw a party to celebrate. i don't feel any particular way about it; it's simply a fact.
but something as momentous as this shouldn't be too easy. it's not brushing teeth. i agree with what Mayor Pete once said, that this decision was not made easier by the government's intrusion. but on the flip side, Mayor Pete and his ilk seem to want the government to intrude in a no holes barred helpful, all expenses paid kind of way which also seems wrong to me.
somewhere along the line, the "safe, legal and rare" lost the rare part.
i guess i don't have any answers, merely lots of thoughts
All arguments, good or bad, are irrelevant until the point of viability. Freedom--theoretical and actual--is costly. People want it for themselves and hate that others can exercise it and that's true in every realm of life. It's just no one's business until the point of viability. That's it. That's the hill, really, to die on.
Well, that's why we have laws in society. All laws are arbitrary decisions about what is permissible/impermissible for a society to achieve reasonable stability in an unpredictable and largely ungovernable world. There's always a "yes, but" for everything.
It's an issue of rendering women's fertility not a private biological feature of the female sex but a resource in which the state/society declares a communal interest.
Except treating this as essentially a cultural issue is profoundly dishonest.
Pregnancy is an arduous physical condition regardless of all other considerations. A woman's body is permanently altered.
The opinions, the moral arguments of others should have zero credence before the point of viability. I think abortion is a hideous reality but an absolutely necessary evil, yet whatever I think about it should be irrelevant. Until the point of viability, no moral weight whatsoever should be attached to it under color of law or otherwise.
You are being much too reasonable, SCA.
A woman’s body is permanently altered…this is true…whether she gives birth…or aborts the pregnancy at some point.
An abortion does NOT return a woman’s body to a “never been pregnant” state
Abortion changes a woman forever. Worse, these abortion pills the left is so cavalier about sending through the mail without doctor eval or follow-up is deadly shit. Pregnancy is not a surprise unless a woman is raped which is illegal and accounted for in abortion laws. Women hold responsibility to stay un-pregnant if they don't want to have this problem, and being pregnant and unmarried now is nothing like it was 50 years ago, nobody is making women keep and raise babies they don't want. The landscape that made abortion make a little more sense long ago hans completely changed, while abortion ghouls have been making big business of ruining young women's lives through the abortion, transition and now covid vax clinic (without parental consent, naturally).
It's nobody's business except the woman's before the point of viability.
i am a woman and i would agree with you except- the State seems to have two compelling interests here 1) encouraging the next generation of workers, tax payers, voters and cannon fodder and 2) the general prohibition against murder is harder to make if you have carve outs.
politicians and lawyers can argue about when life becomes life- is it the heart beat? the viability (which changes as medical intervention gets better at spending vast sums keeping super premies alive)?
there are those who would argue that children aren't really viable until they are in their 30s! i heard a rabid woman in an interview insisting that it was a woman's choice and ALWAYS a woman's choice even when it came to murdering her 3 year old. i think reasonable people would agree that she had gone too far. but when does "nobody's business" become too much to bear?
which is why abortion is such a complex issue- it is the extinguishing of a life and yet if the developing fetus were, let's say, a rapidly growing cancerous tumor taking over, no one would argue against cutting it out. and because it's growing in someone else's body, there are two sets of rights which may sometimes compete.
from what i see posted on line, i think many women are angry about the unfairness of childbirth but that's just how it is. wishing it to be a more shared burden is like saying trans "women" are women- it ignores reality at it's peril.
you yourself say "Pregnancy is an arduous physical condition regardless of all other considerations. A woman's body is permanently altered." but i know women who LOVED being pregnant and everyone's body is permanently altered just with the passage of time. are you the same physical person you were at 20?
from the point of view of the species, a woman's only function might be simply to make more and contrary to what you said about the arduousness of it all, women evolved to endure it. all those organs and hormones exist for a reason.
there was a time in my life when i swore i would leave the country if roe vs wade was ever overturned even if i was post menopausal and no longer directly affected by it because it would indicate that the country had swung too far to the right. but watching the "my body, my choice" crowd disavow that sentiment when it came to covid vaccines has caused me to rethink my position. these days i think that getting back to the Constitution is more important than whether or not some woman is inconvenienced when trying to off her child. honestly these women seem so angry- at men, at their own physicality, at everything, like they're in some kind of death cult where everything is miserable.
and to be perfectly candid, i had an abortion in the early 80s so i'm not just blowing smoke. i remember getting the connection through a friend and having to travel to an out of town doctor. i have no regrets; i simply didn't want children. i certainly didn't throw a party to celebrate. i don't feel any particular way about it; it's simply a fact.
but something as momentous as this shouldn't be too easy. it's not brushing teeth. i agree with what Mayor Pete once said, that this decision was not made easier by the government's intrusion. but on the flip side, Mayor Pete and his ilk seem to want the government to intrude in a no holes barred helpful, all expenses paid kind of way which also seems wrong to me.
somewhere along the line, the "safe, legal and rare" lost the rare part.
i guess i don't have any answers, merely lots of thoughts
All arguments, good or bad, are irrelevant until the point of viability. Freedom--theoretical and actual--is costly. People want it for themselves and hate that others can exercise it and that's true in every realm of life. It's just no one's business until the point of viability. That's it. That's the hill, really, to die on.
It is the woman’s “business”…and the man’s, and the baby’s, and the grandparent’s and siblings….and God’s.
No. Only the woman's.
Some would say after that, either, but that's not really on the table.
Well, that's why we have laws in society. All laws are arbitrary decisions about what is permissible/impermissible for a society to achieve reasonable stability in an unpredictable and largely ungovernable world. There's always a "yes, but" for everything.
Abortion itself IS a cultural issue, but the laws should be free of all that. Therein lies the problem.
It's an issue of rendering women's fertility not a private biological feature of the female sex but a resource in which the state/society declares a communal interest.
A false interest.
Profoundly so.